I was not there but I always wondered if Jehovah had anything to do with Lloyd Barry dying while giving a talk at a district assembly in Hawaii. After all he was on the governing body and he personally signed off to associate with the UN as an NGO. Que the spooky music . . . .
Indian Larry
JoinedPosts by Indian Larry
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113
What's The STRANGEST Thing You've Seen At A Kingdom Hall?
by minimus ini saw a fight break out on the platform between an elder and a unbelieving husband who accused the elder of f---ing his wife.
he then threw the lectern on the floor and pushed the elder.
it was cool.......
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Pyramid - Common Knowledge?
by NeverKnew ini was telling my extended family (also non-jws) about the pyramid near russell's grave i saw months ago.
i showed them pictures of the four sides and the interesting inscriptions along with the pictures of the founder's grave.. there are a couple of jw women who come to see my cousin every once in a while.
last week, she mentioned the pyramid.
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Indian Larry
I let it "slip" to an elder just a couple of days ago. He had no idea at all. He is a born-in in his early 60's
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A Video Series about 607 BC vs 587 BC
by Londo111 inthis is the main series playlist:.
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=plynx0om_bmgbfmnapjr_v5fe9_pf8sqa1.
this is the accompanying video appendix:.
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Indian Larry
Londo. I enjoyed your series. I appreciated that you barely even mentioned the Watchtower (so far, I have only watched 8) and you made a complex subject simple. Because you did not openly rag on the Watchtower that will allow me to use you videos to try to help my wife see. There is no way she would ever read EOGT but this is simple enough and enough like a documentary that I think I will be able to get away with it.
I will let you know how it goes.
Thanks for your effort.
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Hate Speech
by Roberta804 ini was listening to a recording on youtube taken from the 2013 convention on "human apostates".
the term "mentally diseased" is way over the line.
can you imagine if they called blacks or catholics or god forbid, muslims "mentally diseased" what kind of trouble there would be?
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Indian Larry
Found it.
Beware of Human Apostates
You cannot be partaking at the table of Jehovah and the table of demons. These inspired words of the apostle Paul found at 1 Corinthians 10:21 show that two figurative tables are set before us. For the last day-and-a-half, you have been partaking at the table of Truth of Jehovah and haven’t you found it to be good? [clapping]. Jehovah uses human representatives, the faithful and appointed elders to dispense truths for those eating at his table. The apostate Satan disseminates falsehoods in a similar way. He mimics Jehovah by using human representatives. Who are they? If Satan and his demons are chefs in his evil kitchen then human apostates are his helpers. Wicked humans imitate the original apostate Satan. Like Satan, human apostates are unruly men who cook up wicked reasoning and season their brew with poisonous lies that deceive minds. Human apostates have sat at the table of Jehovah. At Jehovah’s table they enjoyed a table of well-oiled dishes, a banquet of wine kept on the grapes; they were domestics, part of the household of faith and partook of Bible truth, prepared and dispensed by the faithful steward, the Governing Body. But the pushed away from the table of Jehovah. Their preference is to partake of falsehoods at the table of demons. This action of pushing themselves away from the table of Jehovah is described for us at 1 John 2: 19 (They went out of us, for they were not of our sort…).
Apostates do not drift away from the truth. They deliberately decide to go out from among God’s people because they are not our sort. Human apostates are part of the seed of the serpent spoken of in Genesis 3:15. If we wish to please Jehovah we cannot sit as his table and at the same time be nibbling at the table of demons, eating from the hands of Satan’s helpers, human apostates. So, for the next few minutes we are going to discuss how to identify human apostates and what you must do to protect yourself from the poison of apostasy. Let’s first discuss how to identify human apostates. Apostasy often starts with prideful rejection of counsel and escalates into bitterness and jealousy - James 3:14. Because apostates allow bitterness to take root in their heart, they become defiant of and false to the truth. How does this defiance to the truth manifest itself. The actions of apostates bear three characteristics. These characteristics help us identify human apostates. The first identifying mark of human apostates is commented on at Luke 6: 46 (Why call me Lord, but not do the things I say). Apostates profess to be followers of Jesus, but are not obedient to his commands. A recent example of when this happened was in the mid-70’s when some prominent elders, some who even served at Bethel felt it was below their dignity to witness from house to house, proclaiming the message as commanded by Jesus. They urged others to take it easy because the humble work of witnessing from house to house work was not necessary or unscriptural. The Governing Body expelled the unrepentant apostates from the organization. The faithful slave did not allow the efforts of these apostates to distract it from the primary work of Jehovah’s witnesses, proclaiming God’s word of truth. So the first characteristic we can use to identify human apostates is that they reject God’s service. Many bock at Jesus’ command to go and make disciples. A second characteristic that identifies human apostates is commented on at Acts 20:30 (men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples for themselves). What is it that apostates want? Most are not content to simply leave the faith they once viewed as true. They want to take others with them. Rather than going out and making their own disciples, many apostates seek to draw away Christ’s disciples after themselves. Like a kidnapper who carries an unsuspecting victim away from his family, apostates prey upon trusting members of the congregation, seeking to carry them away from the flock. In addition they seek to cause divisions in the congregation - 2 Peter 2:1 (false teachers who quietly bring in destructive sects). To accomplish their goal of drawing away disciples after themselves or dividing the congregation, apostates may use smooth talk on the internet, on television or through letters to loyal witnesses of Jehovah. So a second characteristic that identifies human apostates is that they seek to draw away Christ’s disciples after themselves and cause divisions. A third characteristic manifested by human apostates is they claim to serve Jehovah, yet they reject his representatives - 3 John 9-10 (does not receive anything from us with respect, using wicked words).
Apostates claim to serve God, but reject his representatives. They lie to authorities. Through the media they seek to discredit Jehovah’s people and incite bans on our work. For instance, in one country a news report instigated by apostates falsely stated that Jehovah’s witnesses supported Hitler’s regime during world war two. In other countries apostate used the media to accuse Jehovah’s witnesses of refusing to give medical treatment to their children and of deliberately condoning serious sins committed by fellow believers. So a third characteristic that identifies human apostates is that they reject and try to discredit Jehovah’s representatives here on earth.
Now that we know how to identify human apostates, what must we do to protect ourselves from the poison of apostasy? Romans 16:17 (keep your eye on those causing stumble and avoid them).
Suppose a doctor told you to avoid contact with someone who was infected with a contagious deadly disease. Would you reason that limited contact is okay? Similarly human apostate as mentally diseased and they try to infect others with their disloyal teachings. Jehovah, the great physician tells us to avoid contact with them. What is involved in avoiding apostates? 2 John 10-11 (never receive him into your home or say a greeting, not to become sharers in their wickedness). Avoiding apostates means we will not allow them in our homes, reading their literature, watching TV programs that feature them, examining their websites or adding our comments to their blogs. Why do we take such a firm stand? We do not want to become sharers in their wicked works. We love the God of Truth. We are not interested in twisted teachings that contradict God’s word of truth. We love Jehovah’s organization, the organization that taught us thrilling truths. Truths about Jehovah’s name and its meaning. God’s purpose for the earth. The condition of the dead and the hope of the resurrection. Can you recall how you felt when you first learned these and other precious truths. Why then allow yourself to be sour? Poisoned by anyone who would belittle the organization through which you learned these truths. Does avoiding apostates imply that our faith is not strong enough to discern truth from falsehood? That our faith is not strong enough to discuss different views? Not at all. In our ministry we discuss with those who have different views. Apostates differ from those we meet in our ministry. Apostates are not sincere in their expressions. Their aim is to manipulate your mind and undermine your faith – Psalm 12:2 (untruth they keep speaking). With good reason the Bible then tells us to avoid apostates, just as we would avoid a person who was infected with a deadly contagious disease – 1 John 2:18-19 (many Anti-Christ’s that went out from us).
Because they oppose the truth, apostates are part of the Anti-Christ. They are liars and deceivers, out to destroy your relationship with Jehovah God and his son Christ Jesus. Therefore we want to avoid them for they are not of our sort. Deuteronomy 32:46-47 (apply you hearts to all the words I am speaking and warning; it means your life).
Heeding his inspired warnings means our very life. How thankful we are for divine warnings against apostasy. May we show our appreciation by walking in God’s word of Truth. May we stay busy in the work Jesus assigned us to do; Sharing God’s word of Truth with others. By doing so, you will forever enjoy Jehovah’s divine seal of approval.
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Hate Speech
by Roberta804 ini was listening to a recording on youtube taken from the 2013 convention on "human apostates".
the term "mentally diseased" is way over the line.
can you imagine if they called blacks or catholics or god forbid, muslims "mentally diseased" what kind of trouble there would be?
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Indian Larry
Does anyone have a link to the text of this talk?
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I found something in Watchtower literature I can agree with.
by Indian Larry ini ran across this excerpt from studies in the scriptures vol iv.
in it russell rails on as to why you should not tie youreself to any organization.
in a way he unknowingly predicts how the watchtower would turn against real "truth seekers" in their own organization, (quite possible the only prediction he ever got correct) and then goes on to show how the deluded witness just can't see how they can have a relationship with christ without a earthly organization.. .
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Indian Larry
I ran across this excerpt from Studies in the Scriptures Vol IV. In it Russell rails on as to why you should not tie youreself to any organization. In a way he unknowingly predicts how the Watchtower would turn against real "truth seekers" in their own organization, (quite possible the only prediction he ever got correct) and then goes on to show how the deluded Witness just can't see how they can have a relationship with Christ without a earthly organization.
Surely all know that whenever they join any of these human organizations, accepting its Confession of Faith as theirs, they bind themselves to believe neither more nor less than that creed expresses on the subject. If, in spite of the bondage thus voluntarily yielded to, they should think for themselves, and receive light from other sources, in advance of the light enjoyed by the sect they have joined, they must either prove untrue to the sect and to their covenant with it, to believe nothing contrary to its Confession, or else they must honestly cast aside and repudiate the Confession which they have outgrown, and come out of such a sect.
To do this requires grace and costs some effort, disrupting, as it often does, pleasant associations, and exposing the honest truth-seeker to the silly charges of being a “traitor” to his sect, a “turncoat,” one “not established,” etc. When one joins a sect, his mind is supposed to be given up entirely to that sect, and henceforth not his own. The sect undertakes to decide for him what is truth and what is error; and he, to be a true, staunch, faithful member, must accept the decisions of his sect, future as well as past, on all religious matters, ignoring his own individual thought, and avoiding personal investigation, lest he grow in knowledge, and be lost as a member of such sect. This slavery of conscience to a sect and creed is often stated in so many words, when such a one declares that he “belongs” to such a sect.
These shackles of sectarianism, so far from being rightly esteemed as shackles and bonds, are esteemed and worn as ornaments, as badges of respect and marks of character. So far has the delusion gone, that many of God’s children would be ashamed to be known to be without some such chains—light or heavy in weight, long or short in the personal liberty granted. They are ashamed to say that they are not in bondage to any sect or creed, but “belong” to Christ only.
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Video Shows Impala Escape Cheetah By Jumping Into Passenger Vehicle
by Iamallcool inhttp://www.myfoxatlanta.com/story/22805713/video-shows-impala-escape-cheetah-by-jumping-into-passenger-vehicle.
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Indian Larry
Cool.
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Why the "New Light" in the July 15 Watchtower?
by Indian Larry init seems to me that in the past large flashes of "new light" have come when the governing body was backed into a corner.
for example the multiple re-defining of what a generation is until it ended up the ridiculous "overlapping" meaning.. what is the reason this time?
are they worried because the number of partakers has been going up?
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Indian Larry
It seems to me that in the past large flashes of "new light" have come when the governing body was backed into a corner. For example the multiple re-defining of what a generation is until it ended up the ridiculous "overlapping" meaning.
What is the reason this time? Are they worried because the number of partakers has been going up? Are they in effect demoting the rest of the annointed as a pre-emptive move to ward off any power plays? Is there something else I am missing? Why change at this time? There has to be a good reason
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July 15 Watchtower - Contradiction on Page 22 paragraph 10
by Indian Larry inthe paragraph says:.
who, then, is the faithful and discreet slave?
that slave is made up of a small group of anointed brothers who are directly involved in preparing and dispensing.
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Indian Larry
The paragraph says:
Who, then, is the faithful and discreet slave? . . . that slave is made up of a small group of anointed brothers who are directly involved in preparing and dispensing
spiritual food during Christ’s presence.
My thoughts:
It is kind of ironic that the teaching has changed to mean that only a small group are actually involved in preparing and dispensing food during Christ’s presence.
In 1981 there was a big scandal in Brooklyn. The editor of the Awake left the organization, the registrar and co-author of the Gilead school left, one of the members of the Governing body left along with more than 200 others. One of the points that those that left agreed on was that the faithful slave really did not “represent” the 144,000.
In response to this there was a very direct Watchtower article condemning those who held this viewpoint as “objectors”. Here is part of that article:
"Witnesses of Jehovah understand that the "slave" is comprised of all anointed Christians as a group on earth at any given time during the 19 centuries since Pentecost. Accordingly, the "domestics" are these followers of Christ as individuals.
Some readers may feel that this is a rather sectarian view of matters. Or they may object to the idea that the "slave" and the "domestics" represent the same class, one as a composite body and the other as individuals. The objectors may argue that not all of Christ's anointed disciples have a share in preparing the spiritual food, so that perhaps the "slave" pictures only the leading ones, and the "domestics" those they serve in the congregation.
There is no point in trying to force an interpretation of the parable. Self-deception is of no benefit and is spiritually damaging. Therefore, we must look to the Scriptures for an understanding. In doing this, what do we find?
[ ... ]Thus we see a clear Scriptural basis for saying that all anointed followers of Christ Jesus make up God's "servant," with Jesus as its Master." Watchtower 1981 Mar 1 pp.24-26
Notice that last sentence above? That is proof positive that they can use the scriptures to prove or disprove whatever they want to. Let's break this down to its basics.
1. So called "apostates" claim that the only the governing body is truly the "faithful slave", and the 144,000 anointed can not be part of it because they are not involved "feeding".
2. They are condemned as apostates, called objectors, thought of as disloyal.
3. The governing body prints a Watchtower (spiritual food) that says that there is a "clear scriptural basis for saying all anointed followers of Christ Jesus" are part of the "slave".
4. Move forward 32 years. The governing body prints another Watchtower, this time saying the exact opposite thing. Now we are shown scripture after scripture that proves that the anointed are NOT part of the "slave"
Is this really light getting brighter? We know the scriptures didn't change, we know that Jehovah does not change, and we know that the truth does not change. Were the governing body telling the truth the first time? Are they telling the truth now? How are we supposed to know?
I think this food has a little bit of a bad odor coming off of it.
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Wheat and Weeds artwork in July 15th Watchtower
by Indian Larry inon the back cover of july 15 watchtower magazine is an article entitled look at the artwork!
it tells us that:.
"the beautiful pictures and photographs that are painstakingly produced are there for a purpose.
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Indian Larry
On the back cover of July 15 Watchtower magazine is an article entitled “Look at the ARTWORK!” It tells us that:
"The beautiful pictures and photographs that are painstakingly produced are there for a purpose. They are teaching aids that make us think and feel. . . . What does it portray? How does it relate to the title of the article or to the theme scripture. With every other illustration, think of how it relates to the subject under discussion and to your own life.
This illustration (page 10) shows a field that has roughly an equal amount of wheat and weeds. How does it relate to the subject? It is not representative of what the governing body claims is the actual split of wheat and weeds. According to this article the wheat are ONLY the anointed Christians and the weeds are imitation Christians.
To get an accurate idea of what the field would look like I looked up on Google the number of (imitation) Christians in the world. The total is 2.18 billion. I assigned each “christian” a 1 centimeter square on in the field. This makes a field that is approximately 54 acres. Out of this we would have 12,604 “anointed” alive today. If we assign each one 1 sq. centimeter in this field they “wheat” would cover only 1 1/2 sq. yards!
In other words, it is not a field of wheat with some weeds over sown, it is a 54 acre field of weeds with one or two stalks of wheat every so often.
To better visualize the difference lets look at the difference in yield. The average yield of wheat in the US was 46.3 bushels per acre, / 4840 sq yds (per acre) = <.001 bushel per sq. yard. So if the field was as shown in the illustration it should have produced approximately 1250 bushels of wheat. However, according to the governing bodies interpretation the field that Jesus planted will only produce less than 1/1000th of a bushel. Maybe enough to make a sandwich.
One of the other statements in the “Look at the ARTWORK!” article on the back cover is that the illustrations are “to help the reader visualize the lessons”. I think it is very true that the illustrations to help to visualize the lessons. The saying is a picture is worth a thousand words. Perhaps that is why if you ask most Witnesses they would be shocked to find out that the governing body does not consider them worthy to by classified as wheat.